七印部落 译制

史蒂夫 乔布斯：遗失的访谈

Steve Jobs: The lost interview

[00:27]

我是 Bob Cringely

I’m Bob Cringely,

16 年前（1995 年）我制作《书呆子的胜利》时采访了乔布斯

16 years ago when I was making my television series Triumph of the Nerds, I interviewed Steve Jobs.

1985 年乔布斯被他自己引荐的 CEO John Sculley 排挤出苹果

That was in 1995, 10 years earlier Steve had left Apple, following a bruising struggle with John Sculley, the CEO he had brought into the company.

接受釆访时，乔布斯正在经营他创办的 NeXT 公司

At the time of our interview, Steve was running NeXT, the niche computer company he founded after leaving Apple.

18 个月后苹果收购 NeXT，半年后乔布斯重新掌管苹果

Little did we know was within 18 months he would sell NeXT to Apple, and 6 month later he’d be running the place.

[00:59]

当年的节目只用了一小段采访

The way things work in television we use only a part of that interview in the series.

九十年代末采访母带从伦敦运往美国途中遗失

And for years we thought the interview was lost for forever

多年来我们一直以为再也看不到完整的采访

because the master tape were missing while being shipped from London to US in the 1990s.

然而几天前导演 Paul Sen 在车库里发现了一份 VHS 拷贝

Then just a few days ago, series director Paul Sen found a VHS copy of that interview in his garage.

乔布斯生前很少接受电视采访，如此精彩的访谈更是罕见

There are very few TV interviews with Steve Jobs and almost no good ones.

它记录了乔布斯的坦率，非凡的魅力和独特的视野

They rarely show the charisma, candor and vision that this interview does.

为了向这位奇人致敬，我们几乎一刀未剪

And so to honor an amazing man, here’s that interview in its entirety,

大部分内容是首次公布于众

Most of these has never been seen before.

[01:40]

Bob: 你是怎么与个人计算机结缘的？

Bob: So, how did you get involved, uh, with personal computers?

Steve: 我第一次见到计算机是 10 或 11 岁

Steve: Well, I ran into my first computer when I was about 10 or 11.

很难回忆当年的情景，我快成老古董了

And it’s hard to remember back then but I’m, I’m an old fossil now, I’m an old fossil…

大约 30 多年前，见过电脑的人不多

So when I was 10 or 11, that was about 30 years ago and no one had ever seen a computer.

即使见到，也是在电影里

To the extent they’d seen them, they’d seen them in the movies.

那时电影里的计算机都是装有开盘机的大柜子，闪闪发光

And they were really big boxes with whirring. For some reason they fixated it on the tape drives, as being the icon of what the computer was, or flashing light somehow.

真正了解计算机功能和原理的人不多

And, so nobody had ever seen one. They were mysterious, very powerful things that did something in the background.

有机会接触计算机的人更是寥寥无几

And so to see one and actually get to use one was a real privilege back,

我有幸在 NASA Ames 研究中心见到一台

and I got into NASA Ames Research Center and I got to use a time sharing terminal.

那还不是一台完整的计算机，只是一台分时共享的终端机

And so I didn’t actually see a computer but I saw a time sharing terminal.

设备非常简陋，连显示器都没有

And in those days it’s hard to remember how primitive it was. There were no such things as a computer with a graphics video display.

只是一台带键盘的电传打印机

It was literally a printer. It was a teletype printer with keyboard on it,

你在键盘上输入指令耐心等待，然后它会哒哒哒地输出结果

so you would keyboard this commands in and you would wait for a while, and then things would go “tatatatatata”, and it would tell you something else.

[02:58]

即便如此这玩意也太奇妙了，尤其是对十岁的男孩而言

But even with that, it was still remarkable, especially for a 10-year-old,

你可以用 Basic 语言或 Fortran 语言编写程序

that you could write a program in BASIC, let’s say, or FORTRAN.

机器接受并执行你的设想，然后把结果告诉你

And actually this machine would sort of take your idea, and it would sort of execute your idea and give you back some results.

如果结果和设想的一样，说明程序见效了，这太让人激动了

And if they were the results you predicted, your program really work, and it was incredibly thrilling experience.

我完全给计算机迷住了

So I became very err…. captivated by computer.

当然计算机对我而言仍然有些神秘

And a computer to me was still a little mysterious

因为真正的计算机藏在电缆的另一端，而我从未见过

cause it’s at the other end of wire, I had never really seen the actual computer itself.

打那以后我总想着计算机

I think I got tours of computers after that, saw the insides,

后来我参加了惠普的兴趣小组

and then I was part of this group at Hewlett-Packard

12 岁时我打电话给 Bill Hewlett，他当时住在惠普

when I was 12, I called up Bill Hewlett who lived in Hewlett-Packard at the time.

当时所有电话号码都印在号码簿里，又暴露了我的年龄

And again this dates me… But there was no such thing as unlisted telephone number then,

只要翻电话号码簿，就能查到他的电话

so I can just look into the book and look his name up.

[04:01]

他接了电话，我说我叫 Steve Jobs，你不认识我

And he answered the phone, and I said Hi, My name is Steve Jobs. You don’t know me,

我 12 岁，打算做频率计数器，需要些零件

but I’m 12 years old, and I’m building a frequency counter, and I’d like some spare parts.

我们聊了大概 20 分钟

and so he talked to me for about 20 minutes,

我永远记得他不但给了零件，还邀请我夏天去惠普打工

I will never forget as long as I live, he gave me the parts, but he also gave me a job working in Hewlett-Packard that summer.

我才 12 岁，这件事对我产生了不可思议的影响

and I was 12 years old. and that really made a remarkable influence on me,

惠普是我见过的第一家公司

Hewlett-Packard was really the only company I’d ever seen in my life at that age.

它让我懂得了什么是公司，如何善待员工

And it forms my view of what a company was and how well they treated their employees.

[04:40]

那时还没有胆固醇偏高一说

You know, at that time, I mean they didn’t know about cholesterol back then.

每天上午十点公司拖来满满一卡车的甜面圈和咖啡

And then at that time they used to bring a big car full of donuts and coffee out at 10 o’clock every morning,

大家停下工作喝杯咖啡，品尝甜面圈

and everyone take a coffee and have a donut break, just little things like that .

很明显惠普明白公司真正的价值在于员工

It was clear that the company recognized its true values was its employees.

之后我每周二晚都去惠普的 Palo Alto 实验室

So anyway, things led to things with HP and I started going up to their Palo Alto Research Labs every Tuesday night,

与一些研究人员见面

with a small group of people to meet some of the researchers and staffs.

我见到了第一台台式计算机 HP 9100

and I saw the first desktop computer ever made which was the HP 9100.

大概有行李箱那么大，装着小小的 CRT 显示器

It was that as big as a suitcase but it actually had a small Cathode Ray Tube (CRT) display in it.

它是一台可以独立工作的一体机，我很喜欢

And it was completed self-contained. There was no wire going off behind the curtain somewhere, and I fell in love with it.

它使用 Basic 或 APL 编程，我常常数小时地守着它编程

And you could program BASIC in APL. And I would just, for hours, you know, get right up to HP and just hang around that machine and write programs for it.

差不多也是在那时我认识了 Steve Wozniak

so that was the early days. And I met Steve Wozniak around that time too.

我大约十四五岁，可能还要小些

maybe a little earlier, when I was about 14, 15 years old.

我俩很投缘，他是我遇到的第一个比我更懂电子知识的人

and we immediately hit it off , and he was the first person I met who knew more electronics than I did.

他大概比我大五岁，我很喜欢他

So I like him a lot and he was, uh, maybe 5 years older than I.

他因为制造恶作剧被大学开除

He gone off to college and got kicked out for pulling pranks.

刚刚回到父母家，正在修 De Anza 大专的课程

And he was living with his parents and going to De Anza, the local junior college.

我们成了最要好的朋友，开始一起做项目

so we became best friends and started doing projects together.

我们在《Esquire》杂志上看到有个叫 Captain Crunch 的人

We read about the story in Esquire magazine about this guy named Captain Crunch,

据说他有办法打免费电话，你肯定也听说过

who could supposedly make free telephone calls, you heard about this I’m sure.

我们很好奇，怎么可能做到呢？

And we again, we were captivated. How could anybody do this?

多半是吹牛

And we thought it must be a hoax.

我们开始泡图书馆，寻找打免费电话的秘密

And we started looking through libraries, looking for the secret tones that would allow you to do this.

一天晚上我们去了斯坦福线性加速中心

And it turned out that we were at Stanford Linear Accelerate Center one night,

在科技图书馆角落的最后一排书架上

and way in the bowels of their technical library, way down at the last bookshelf in the corner bottom rack.

我们找到一份 AT&T 技术手册，揭开了所有的秘密

We found an AT&T Technical Journal that laid out the whole thing.

我永远忘不了那一刻

And that’s another moment I’ll never forget.

我们看着这份手册，心想老天这一切都是真的

We saw this journal and we thought “My God! It’s all real”.